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Jupiter Rowland
@iFixit
and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts

You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on Hubzilla and on (streams) where I post my images.

But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field.

By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions.

In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video.

Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance.

CC: @masukomi @GunChleoc

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions
joinfediverse.wikiHubzilla - Join the Fediverse
#mediadescriptions
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Jupiter Rowland
@Joseph Meyer
When you read exceptional alt text, do you ever compliment its author? What is the epitome of alt text, either in general terms or using a specific example?

I'd really like to know that myself, also to up my own game further and always stay way ahead of image description quality requirements.

I mean, I've learned a lot about describing images in and for the Fediverse over the last two years. But I guess I can still learn something new, even if I think I already take care of everything, even if the technical possibilities I have here on Hubzilla for describing images surpass those on Mastodon by magnitudes.

Maybe, if I learn something new from those who reply, I can weave it into the image descriptions for a series of images that I've been working on since late last year (the descriptions, not the images which are ready to go).

Alt text sometimes merely explains what I am viewing; other times it draws my attention to special details in a photo that I would have otherwise missed.

I never explain in alt-text. I do always explain a whole lot because I always have to explain a whole lot. For my original images, it takes me over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image was made.

But I only ever give explanations in the long, detailed image descriptions that go into the post text body (in addition to shorter and purely visual descriptions in the alt-texts).

Or if there's no additional long image description in the post itself which is the case for my meme posts, I still supply enough explanation in the post text body (still not in the alt-text) for just about everyone in the Fediverse to understand them without having to look anything up themselves. If I can link to external information, e.g. KnowYourMeme for the template I've used, I do so. If I can't, I write the missing explanations right into the post myself.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euImage descriptions in the FediverseI have learned a lot about describing images according to Mastodon's standards, and I want to share my knowledge, but I haven't learned enough
#cwimagedescriptionmeta
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Jupiter Rowland
@vulgalour First of all, "image description" and "alt-text" don't mean the same thing.

Alt-text is what's added directly to the image. It's what screen readers used by blind or visually-impaired people read out loud as they can't "read out loud" an image. It's what people see instead of the image if the image doesn't show for them (text-based client, too slow Internet connection, whatever).

Alt-text should never convey more information than the image which it is a replacement for.

An image description that goes into the post itself is not alt-text.

I don't see any rule or part of the "Fediquette" or "Mastodon culture" that speaks against adding that additional information to a reply.

Whether it works or not depends on whether your customers accept it or not. I guess that 99% of your aspiring customers in the Fediverse will be on Mastodon, only see your start post and not be bothered to check the replies. So my suggestion is to leave room in the original post for tellling your customers that prices can be found in a reply to that post.

But seeing as this will happen to you a lot, it may be worth looking for someplace that offers you more than 500 characters:
  • a Mastodon instance with a raised character limit
  • Pleroma (5,000 characters by default, configurable by the admin)
  • Akkoma (5,000 characters by default, configurable by the admin)
  • Misskey (3,000 characters, hard-coded; just steer clear of misskey.io)
  • the various forks of Misskey and forks of their forks like Iceshrimp or Sharkey (thousands of characters by default, configurable by the admin)

If you need a five-digit character count, the best you can do requires basically re-learning the Fediverse, mastering a significantly steeper learning curve and very likely abandoning dedicated apps. Here we're talking about Mike Macgirvin's creations from Friendica (200,000 characters) to Hubzilla (probably even higher) to (streams) and Forte (over 24,000,000 characters).

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@vulgalour If the prices can be read in the image, you should add them to the alt-text. A price tag is text, and text must be transcribed.

If the prices are not in the image, they go into the post text. If you only have 500 characters, make room for them. But do not only make them available in the alt-text.

Not everyone can access alt-text. There are people with physical disabilities who cannot open an alt-text. Information that is only available in the alt-text, but neither in the post text nor in the image itself, is inaccessible and lost to them. This means that information must be in the image and the alt-text or in the post text, but never only in the alt-text.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Schafstelze
(überflüssige Details auf der einen, fehlende wichtige Info auf der anderen Seite)

Im Endeffekt ist das Beschreiben von Bildern also eine Gratwanderung, um nicht Hochseilakt zu sagen, wo man exakt das Optimum finden muß. Minimal darunter oder darüber ist schon sanktionierungswürdig.

Und kopiert es dorthin wo es hingehört, nämlich in die Medienbeschreibung direkt am Medium.

Damit wäre also auch meine Vorgehensweise "illegal": relativ kurze, aber einigermaßen detaillierte Beschreibung im Alt-Text plus zusätzlich lange, hochdetaillierte Beschreibung inklusive aller notwendigen Erklärungen und inklusive Transkripten aller Texte innerhalb der Grenzen des Bildes im Post selbst (kein erwähnenswertes Zeichenlimit hier). Genau das sehe ich bei meinen eigenen Bildern aber als notwendig an.

Das Problem ist hier nur: Zumindest Erklärungen gehören niemals in den Alt-Text. Manche Menschen haben körperliche Behinderungen, die es ihnen unmöglich machen, Alt-Texte aufzurufen. Wenn Informationen nur im Alt-Text zu finden sind und weder im Post noch im Bild, dann sind diese Informationen für sie verloren.

CC: @Groschenromanautorin

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@David Mitchell :CApride:
Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.


Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse.

Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200

You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phone

Allegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone.

Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo.

If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply.

If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus.

If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description.

Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want.

@accessibility group @a11y group

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Inclusion #A11y #Accessibility

CC: @Monstreline @Claire (sometimes Carla) @qurly(not curly)joe

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
#quoteboost
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Jupiter Rowland
@crypticcelery I'm not quite sure if that's such a good idea. I mean, it may make trying to replace other users' alt-texts with your own ones commonplace.

I mean, Mastodon in particular is escalating
from going against no alt-text
to going against non-descriptive alt-text
to going against bad alt-text
to going against not enough alt-text.

The days of "better than nothing" are over. Mastodon is heading straight for going against any kinds of alt-text that isn't optimal, for any individual definition of optimal. It's dragging the rest of the Fediverse with itself by and by. And if suggesting replacement alt-texts for any alt-texts that someone personally deems less than optimal becomes the norm, you'll end up with disputes and flame wars over what's the optimal alt-text in lots of image post threads.

That's because there is absolutely no consensus on what's "enough" or "optimal" alt-text, or if there's such a thing as "too much" alt-text. That's also because people who are interested in accessibility don't talk with each other, neither alt-text activists nor blind or visually-impaired people. Too many people think they have the One True Recipe for describing any possible image.

What makes matters more difficult are obscure edge-cases that don't really fit into any existing scheme. Not all images are cat photos, event posters or social media screenshots. There's even less consensus on describing these edge-cases.

On the other end: Would you be annoyed by this?

Truth be told, it's highly unlikely in my case.

If I spend hours or even days describing one single image in 900 characters in a 1,500-character-altogether alt-text and, on top of that, additionally in tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post itself (no, seriously, I do that, and I've got proof), I don't think that someone will come with two even more detailed and even more massive image descriptions and ask me to replace mine with theirs.

But if someone came and tried to pressure me into replacing my 1,500-character alt-text with their 200-character alt-text and delete my tens-of-thousands-of-characters long description entirely, then I'd be annoyed.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Kagan MacTane Of course, what details need to be described depends on the answer to this question:

Is there a chance that someone who can't see the image might be curious about what an element in the image looks like while definitely not knowing what it looks like?

If the answer is, "Yes," then describing that element is at least justified, if not even mandatory. In this case, inclusion overrules convenience.

Beyond that, I've got four things to criticise about the alt-text in that post.

One, double quotation marks from the keyboard do not belong into alt-text. Two, line feeds do not belong into alt-text either. Just because Mastodon renders both as intended, doesn't mean everything renders them as intended.

Hubzilla renders double quotes from the keyboard as &⁠quot;. (streams) cuts the alt-text off at the first double quote because it internally uses double quotes as alt-text delimiters. When there's a double quote from the keyboard in alt-text, (streams) thinks it marks the end of the alt-text.

Three, URLs don't belong into alt-text because they can't be opened by a browser from alt-text.

Four, about the URL again, there must never be any information exclusively available in alt-text. Not everyone can access alt-text. Some people are prevented from accessing alt-text due to various physical disabilities. Any information available only in alt-text, but neither in the post itself nor in the image is inaccessible and therefore lost to them.

Explanations of any kind go into the post, regardless of character limits.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Inclusion #Inclusivity #A11y #Accessibility
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡 I think that's part of the issue, even if it's unavoidable: There's no one way to please everyone. And the more niche and special your content is, the harder it becomes to please as many disabled people as possible.

There's a saying: "Nothing about us without us." Don't assume what disabled people may need. Ask them. Talk to them. Listen to them.

But I guess the attitude in the Fediverse is that everything is said, everything is defined, everything is set in stone, and it'll work in 100% of all cases. No need to talk about it. You're expected to know it. Just do it.

I mean, I could just carry on assuming, based on what I've read here and there, even if that's technically the wrong thing. I know that there are at least some people who enjoy what I do, for whom it may be helpful.

I could just go on doing that and improving that, for any definition of improving. I could go on until enough people complain to me that I'm doing it completely wrong, and that staggering level of detail is bad for magnitudes more people than it helps. But this is unlikely to happen, seeing as how little feedback I receive.

I mean, at the end of the day, I can't really know whom I describe my images for. Do blind or visually impaired users even come across my image posts, seeing as they come from two different channels than this one now? Do those come across my image posts who demand sanctions for everyone who doesn't describe their images sufficiently? Are my extensive image descriptions and explanations useful for anyone?

Still, I go on putting huge efforts into describing them for the random stranger who stumbles upon one of them on some federated timeline, regardless of whether they're visually-impaired, blessed with a terribly slow Internet connection or a fully sighted alt-text enforcer.

And I will most likely go on increasing my efforts where I can. I'm currently polishing my way of describing persons or rather avatars. After all, I can see the alt-text quality requirements in the Fediverse be constantly raised, too. I need to stay ahead of them.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
hub.netzgemeinde.eu"Nothing About Us Without Us", only it still is without them most of the timeWhen disabled Fediverse users demand participation in accessibility discussions, but there are no discussions in the first place, and they themselves don't even seem to be available to give accessibility feedback
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Jupiter Rowland

Fediblock for caring too much for accessibility and trying too hard? CW: long post (over 7,300 characters), multiple quote-posts, Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta, ableism accusation, Fediblock meta

Apparently, accessibility is not about trying as hard as you can. It has to be about trying exactly the right amount of hard without even knowing what the right amount is because the right amount is different for everyone.

For the record: I refuse to post any image without sufficient description. And "sufficient description" may mean two descriptions, a short (and still long) one in the alt-text, a massive one in the post. If I can't describe it properly, I don't post it. And I'm trying to up my game and add new tricks and new elements to my descriptions.

On the one hand, disabled people demand being involved in the topic of accessibility. Before you do something, consult with those whom you want to help. Don't just simply assume what they may need. Ask them. Discuss things with them. I've written an article on this topic.

On the other hand, apparently, asking too much will get you branded ableist, all the way to your home instance with over users being on the brink of a fediblock.

Here's a comment I've written on this poll thread by @Alina Leonova. I've directed it to a blind user whom I may have asked once too much.

Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 06 Dec 2024 15:59:44 +0100 @Robert Kingett Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions?

Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me.

And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate.

But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is.

And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters.

CC: @Stefan Bohacek @Olivier Mehani @Alina Leonova

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

Here is his reply in which he claims I'm an ableist who actually doesn't want to describe images. This is far from the truth.

Robert Kingett schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 06 Dec 2024 20:47:46 +0100 You really don't think I remember you do you? You ask this question every single time in an attempt to badger users like me into getting away with *not* providing alt text because you wanna be ableist but try to pass it off as perfectionist. You will *never* please everybody, so to even try and to even is patronizing and ableist all by itself. I consider you to be nothing more than a troll. Look dude, if you don't wanna provide alt text then don't fucking provide it, but don't insult my intelligence with this obvious C lion tactic of I'm a perfectionist. I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again. #AltText @jupiter_rowland

Here is my reply.

Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:37:27 +0100 @Robert Kingett
I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again.

If I didn't care for accessibility, if I didn't want to describe my images, why would I want to satisfy everyone, all the way to random strangers who stumble upon my posts in some federated timeline? I shouldn't even want to satisfy anyone!

Why would I spend literal days, morning to evening, describing one image in all details? Twice per image?

Why would I refuse to even take pictures, let alone post them, if they'll be too difficult to describe in a way that I consider sufficient?

Why would I pick up any advice on how to describe certain things, like people or colours, and consider any of my image descriptions that don't have this incorporated hopelessly outdated?

Why would I transcribe text that's too small for sighted people to read, just because all text in an image has to be described? Why would I feel bad about text that I couldn't transcribe and then try to find a source for that piece of text? And yes, I do.

Why would I be literally the only one in the entire Fediverse who tries to tell people that and why explanations don't go into the alt-text because people with certain disabilities can't access alt-text, and any information that's only available in alt-text is lost to them?

And why would I warn sensitive people about eyes or food that's in the image on a microscopic sub-pixel level if I didn't care? And yes, I actually did that. In my post with my second-longest image description.

Just because I don't just simply shut up and describe my images exactly on point like you personally want them described, doesn't justify insulting me as an ableist.

CC: @Alina Leonova

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Ableist #Ableism

In the meantime, he wrote and sent this post in which he called for a fediblock of either my channel or the entirety of hub.netzgemeinde.eu, the biggest Hubzilla instance.

Robert Kingett schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:49:48 +0100 Link at end. I'm unsure if @jupiter_rowland is on his own instance, but #Fediblock for concerned trolling and ableist behavior by being patronizing to disabled people about alt text. I can't find others on his instance, but every, single time, the person posts the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and expects disabled people to tell this person because you can't describe every thing in an image you don't have to do alt text. Or maybe my temper is just short today, but here's the question. This isn't genuine curiocity because he asks the, same, question, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. No answer is to his satisfaction. Nobdoy waste your time with this obnoxious troll. If it turns out I am lashing out of anger and have misjudged, will delete the post but https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuoteBoost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility #Ableist #Ableism #FediblockMeta
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Jupiter Rowland
@Robert Kingett Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions?

Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me.

And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate.

But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is.

And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters.

CC: @Stefan Bohacek @Olivier Mehani @Alina Leonova

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Superdave! Well, the quality and usefulness of image descriptions in general and alt-text in particular can not only vary greatly, depending on the circumstances, but it's also very subjective.

One user could say that an alt-text of 200 characters is sufficient, or even that a longer alt-text is too long. Another user could say about the same image that they need a full, detailed description of all visual elements plus explanations of everything they aren't familiar with because the content of the image is apparently very interesting, but too obscure.

I myself prefer to err on the side of "too much", sometimes taking several days to describe one measly image. Not everyone likes the outcome, but some applaud it.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Kagan MacTane There's one surefire way to tell that an image description is AI-generated: It's whimsical, but blatantly inaccurate, often outright wrong, and it completely ignores the context because there's no way for the AI to know the context.

#AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Jupiter Rowland
@Ciara @Boab I guess there are enough signs that my image descriptions are hand-written, especially for my original virtual world renderings.

  • Alt-texts which lately keep reaching exactly 1,500 characters or only few characters short of that limit.
  • Alt-texts that also mention an even longer image description in the post. And there is an even longer image description in the post. Who asks an AI to describe an image in lots of details and then again in even more details?
  • No AI can produce image descriptions with five-digit character counts like the long one in the post.
  • Excessive detail information about an absolutely obscure niche topic in the long description.
  • Description of visual details that aren't visible at the image's resolution.
  • Transcripts of text that isn't legible or not even visible at the image's resolution.
  • Sometimes I run an extra thread with an image-describing log.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Mastodon.greenCiara (@CiaraNi@mastodon.green)13.2K Posts, 2.29K Following, 2.53K Followers · I post about books. I post photos I snap while wandering about. I post in English, dansk and Danglish. I mostly hang around these spaces: #Books #Audiobooks #ShortStories #Libraries #Bibliotek #Fredagsbog #SilentSunday #ClimateDiary #Aarhus Banner: Aarhus skyline and bay. Profile pic: Me, white, dark shortish hair, tallish, emerging from a tunnel, smiling, happy, wearing a bright red leopard-print dress because that’s the sort of thing a woman in her 50s can happily wear because who cares.
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Jupiter Rowland
@✨ Pippa Cullen ✨ Well, am I doing memes right then? Or do you think I should stop relying on external links for explanations and go back to explaining everything myself, regardless of the ensuing monster posts?

Oh, by the way: Yes, what's behind the links is still very much the Fediverse, even though it isn't Mastodon. Yes, @Jupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams) is federated with Mastodon. And I'm trying to comply with Mastodon's idea of how meme pics and other images should be described.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
streams.elsmussols.netJupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams)This is a special channel for self-made memes about the Fediverse. Don't be too upset if you should come across a whole lot of Mastodon lampooning.
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Jupiter Rowland
@Mike Torr I myself always describe my original images twice, once in the alt-text, once in the post where I don't have any character limit.

But: These are two different descriptions. The one in the alt-text is the short image description. It never grows significantly longer than 1,400 characters, usually not longer than 1,200 characters or so because I need the rest of the character limit imposed by other projects for something else.

This one never contains any explanations because explanations must never go into alt-text.

The one in the post is the long description. It always contains all text transcripts, and it also contains all necessary explanations. The explanations alone can take up several thousand characters combined, and the whole long description is often tens of thousands of characters long. This means it is not identical with the one in the alt-text.

Do you let this count? Or should I put
  • the short alt-text description into the alt-text
  • the short alt-text description into the post as well
  • additionally, the long description into the post, right below the short alt-text description?

As for my meme posts which are almost always based on established meme templates, I currently only describe their visuals once, in the alt-text, and in much fewer characters than my original images, so far always under 800, usually under 700. I hope that doesn't fall under "really long" yet. In addition, I put necessary links and/or explanations into the post for people to understand the image.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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