Veganism Social

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Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iFixit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">iFixit</a> <blockquote>and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts</blockquote> You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> and on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/(streams)" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> where I post my images. But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field. By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions. In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video. Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance. CC: @<a href="https://connectified.com/@masukomi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">masukomi</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@gunchleoc" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">GunChleoc</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescriptions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://c.im/@JosephMeyer" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joseph Meyer</a> <blockquote>When you read exceptional alt text, do you ever compliment its author? What is the epitome of alt text, either in general terms or using a specific example?</blockquote> I'd really like to know that myself, also to up my own game further and always stay way ahead of image description quality requirements. I mean, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've learned a lot about describing images in and for the Fediverse</a> over the last two years. But I guess I can still learn something new, even if I think I already take care of everything, even if the technical possibilities I have here on Hubzilla for describing images surpass those on Mastodon by magnitudes. Maybe, if I learn something new from those who reply, I can weave it into the image descriptions for a series of images that I've been working on since late last year (the descriptions, not the images which are ready to go). <blockquote>Alt text sometimes merely explains what I am viewing; other times it draws my attention to special details in a photo that I would have otherwise missed.</blockquote> I never explain in alt-text. I do always explain a whole lot because I always have to explain a whole lot. For my original images, it takes me over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image was made. But I only ever give explanations in the long, detailed image descriptions that go into the post text body (in addition to shorter and purely visual descriptions in the alt-texts). Or if there's no additional long image description in the post itself which is the case for my meme posts, I still supply enough explanation in the post text body (still not in the alt-text) for just about everyone in the Fediverse to understand them without having to look anything up themselves. If I can link to external information, e.g. KnowYourMeme for the template I've used, I do so. If I can't, I write the missing explanations right into the post myself. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@DavidM_yeg" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Mitchell :CApride:</a> <blockquote>Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.</blockquote> Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200 You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phoneAllegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone. Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo. If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply. If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus. If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description. Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" 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Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> There's generally too little feedback on image descriptions. There should be more praise for really good image descriptions, and there should be more constructive criticism. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> I'm not quite sure if that's such a good idea. I mean, it may make trying to replace other users' alt-texts with your own ones commonplace. I mean, Mastodon in particular is escalating from going against no alt-text to going against non-descriptive alt-text to going against bad alt-text to going against not enough alt-text. The days of "better than nothing" are over. Mastodon is heading straight for going against any kinds of alt-text that isn't optimal, for any individual definition of optimal. It's dragging the rest of the Fediverse with itself by and by. And if suggesting replacement alt-texts for any alt-texts that someone personally deems less than optimal becomes the norm, you'll end up with disputes and flame wars over what's the optimal alt-text in lots of image post threads. That's because there is absolutely no consensus on what's "enough" or "optimal" alt-text, or if there's such a thing as "too much" alt-text. That's also because people who are interested in accessibility don't talk with each other, neither alt-text activists nor blind or visually-impaired people. Too many people think they have the One True Recipe for describing any possible image. What makes matters more difficult are obscure edge-cases that don't really fit into any existing scheme. Not all images are cat photos, event posters or social media screenshots. There's even less consensus on describing these edge-cases. <blockquote>On the other end: Would you be annoyed by this?</blockquote> Truth be told, it's highly unlikely in my case. If I spend hours or even days describing one single image in 900 characters in a 1,500-character-altogether alt-text and, on top of that, additionally in tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post itself (no, seriously, I do that, and I've got proof), I don't think that someone will come with two even more detailed and even more massive image descriptions and ask me to replace mine with theirs. But if someone came and tried to pressure me into replacing my 1,500-character alt-text with their 200-character alt-text and delete my tens-of-thousands-of-characters long description entirely, then I'd be annoyed. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.dhelonious.de/@daniel" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic</a> It isn't just because of compression, nor is it because I scale my images down from my original 2100x1400 renderings to 800x533. As I've said: I don't describe the image with the things in it. I describe the things. Not as they appear in the image, but as they are in-world where I can walk closer to them or move the camera closer to them. It's like an image with a near-infinite resolution. For example, if there's a light grey blob in the image, four pixels wide, three pixels high, I describe it as what it is in-world, a white sign with three lines of black writing on it. I transcribe the text on the sign 100% verbatim including all spelling mistakes, I translate it afterwards if it isn't in English, I may even explain the text if someone out there needs an explanation, and I may go as far as naming and describing the typeface. Or if there are two by two pixels on different levels between red and white, I describe them as what they are in-world, a strawberry cocktail in a conical glass, somewhat like a Martini glass. And I slap an "alcohol" content warning on the whole post. Nowadays, I'd even flag the image sensitive just because of these four pixels. I used to go as far as describing images within my image and even images within images within my image at higher levels of detail than anyone else would describe their own images. I used to describe things that weren't even visible in-world in the place shown in the image. Pictures of places that I would have to walk or even teleport to to be able to describe them. Textures that I would have to make visible otherwise to be able to see all details. The last time I've described an image in an image with details not visible in the place shown in my image was in <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this post</a>. I used almost 5,000 characters to describe a poster on the info board. I had to walk to the place displayed in the image on the poster to be able to describe it. The description of the image within the image got so lengthy that, when I was done, I had to remind the reader that I'm returning to describing "my" image. And I actually "cheated" by adjusting the camera in such a way that one of the three posters on the info board is entirely concealed behind a tree trunk because it would have been painfully difficult to describe. I stopped going that deep when I wrote the image description for <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">what will probably remain my last image post on this channel</a>. The long description was already growing absolutely humongous, and it's my longest one to date with over 60,000 characters. I had actually thought this scene would be easy to describe. The problem I encountered was that there were simply too many images within images within my image. There's one teleporter near the left-hand edge with a preview image that made me reconsider. In-world, no matter how close I move the camera to the preview image, it mostly shows a square area that appear to be tan all over except for something dark and unidentifiable in the middle. Actually, however, the place shown in the preview image has hundreds of single-destination teleporters. Several dozen of them are activated and have one preview image each of their destination. I teleported there to take closer looks at everything. I was actually about to write a description of that "teleport station" when I realised that I also had to describe every single one of these preview images, at least those that face the camera in the preview image on the teleporter in the place that I was originally describing. And some of these preview images had images in them in turn. I would have had to describe probably over a hundred images. In dozens of images. On teleporters which are shown in yet another image on a sub-pixel level. In an image description which was already going out of hand length-wise. On the second day that I was working on that image description. I would have had to teleport at least three times from the place shown in my image to be able to describe these sub-sub-subimages. That was when I decided to sacrifice details for convenience and only describe what's visible in-world within the borders of the image, excluding both objects that are entirely obstructed by something else and surfaces that entirely face away from the point of view. I do fully transcribe any text that's partially obstructed, though, although I'm considering two transcripts of such texts, namely one transcript of what's visible and one full transcript for better understanding. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CW" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CW</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWs" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWs</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarning" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ContentWarning</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarnings" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ContentWarnings</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarningMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ContentWarningMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.dhelonious.de/@daniel" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic</a> I always consider "let them ask if they want to know" bad style for such elementary information. It seems to me like one of these things where Mastodon's good alt-text proponents may criticise you for not mentioning it right away. That is, I wouldn't put that information into the alt-text. I only have about 900 or 1,000 characters at my disposal for describing an image in alt-text. Mastodon, Misskey and their forks chop alt-texts over 1,500 characters off in posts from outside, and I need the rest of the characters to explain where a longer and more detailed description can be found for as long as there are still instances of Mastodon under 4.4 around. This is information that would go into said long description. I've always put the long description into the post itself where I technically don't have any character limits. The limit of 100,000 characters above which Mastodon may completely reject posts is not much to worry about either as long as I don't have multiple highly detailed images with little in common to describe. Leaving out the information where an image is from, unless I have very good reasons to keep the location secret, feels like not giving a long description at all. And not giving the long and detailed description, in the case of my original images, is like omitting the alt-text for "normal" images entirely. I've asked the above question because I have a series of images which are special cases. If surroundings were visible in the images and not too generic, I would definitely explain where the image was made, not although, but because next to nobody in the Fediverse could tell from looking at the image where it was made because even the sighted users would never have seen anything like it before. I want to give everyone in the Fediverse the chance to see the image not only like any sighted person sees it, but like I see the original. This is also why I describe details and transcribe text so tiny that they're basically invisible in the image at its given resolution. But in this special case, the images don't carry any information at all on where they're from. In other words, the information where they're from might be completely useless. Or it might not. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusivity" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusivity</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter RowlandNow I'm wondering again: Let's suppose I have a series of 3-D virtual world images that have a plain white background because they were intentionally created in front of a plain white background. It's impossible to tell from the images where they were made, and when I post them, it won't matter within the context where they were made. Any chances that someone out there might still want to know where exactly I've made these images? Either someone who doesn't know about these worlds, and who is totally curious about them, or one of those probably fewer than 20 Fediverse users who does know about these worlds, and who wants to know where I've gone to make these images? I can easily spare the few hundred extra characters. The only character limit I have to worry about are the 100,000 characters above which Mastodon probably rejects a post from outside. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusivity" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusivity</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://cosocial.ca/@cogdog" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alan Levine</a> Judging by the advice I've read so far, it's always best to describe the colour using basic colours plus attributes such as brightness, saturation and what other basic colour or colours the colour you describe is leaning towards. For example, "light, yellowish orange", "a darker, slightly less saturated, slightly more brownish tone of orange", "various shades of slightly yellowish, medium-light-to-medium brown", "a solid, slightly pale medium blue with a minimal hint of green", "a medium-dark wood texture, slightly reddish, slightly greyish". All actually used by me in the long descriptions in (content warning: eye contact) <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this image post</a>. If the name of the colour plays a role, use it and then describe the colour in the same way as above. Blind or visually-impaired people may not know what Prussian blue or Burgundy red looks like. @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.art/@FrostPoem" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">❄️Faerie❄️</a> @<a href="https://awscommunity.social/@cobalt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">cobalt</a> @<a href="https://tweesecake.social/@BlindQuilter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tanya McGee Wheatley 💜🥰</a> What do you say, is that appropriate, complete overkill or still insufficient? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Stefan BohacekAre there any fediverse servers where alt text is mandatory?<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#accessibility</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/MastoAdmin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#MastoAdmin</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/FediAdmin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#FediAdmin</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@darrell73" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡</a> I think that's part of the issue, even if it's unavoidable: There's no one way to please everyone. And the more niche and special your content is, the harder it becomes to please as many disabled people as possible. There's a saying: "<a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e506e18-13c5-4bfb-aea9-c626e96a619c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Nothing about us without us</a>." Don't assume what disabled people may need. Ask them. Talk to them. Listen to them. But I guess the attitude in the Fediverse is that everything is said, everything is defined, everything is set in stone, and it'll work in 100% of all cases. No need to talk about it. You're expected to know it. Just do it. I mean, I could just carry on assuming, based on what I've read here and there, even if that's technically the wrong thing. I know that there are at least some people who enjoy what I do, for whom it may be helpful. I could just go on doing that and improving that, for any definition of improving. I could go on until enough people complain to me that I'm doing it completely wrong, and that staggering level of detail is bad for magnitudes more people than it helps. But this is unlikely to happen, seeing as how little feedback I receive. I mean, at the end of the day, I can't really know whom I describe my images for. Do blind or visually impaired users even come across my image posts, seeing as they come from two different channels than this one now? Do those come across my image posts who demand sanctions for everyone who doesn't describe their images sufficiently? Are my extensive image descriptions and explanations useful for anyone? Still, I go on putting huge efforts into describing them for the random stranger who stumbles upon one of them on some federated timeline, regardless of whether they're visually-impaired, blessed with a terribly slow Internet connection or a fully sighted alt-text enforcer. And I will most likely go on increasing my efforts where I can. I'm currently polishing my way of describing persons or rather avatars. After all, I can see the alt-text quality requirements in the Fediverse be constantly raised, too. I need to stay ahead of them. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter RowlandApparently, accessibility is not about trying as hard as you can. It has to be about trying exactly the right amount of hard without even knowing what the right amount is because the right amount is different for everyone. For the record: I refuse to post any image without sufficient description. And "sufficient description" may mean two descriptions, a short (and still long) one in the alt-text, a massive one in the post. If I can't describe it properly, I don't post it. And I'm trying to up my game and add new tricks and new elements to my descriptions. On the one hand, disabled people demand being involved in the topic of accessibility. Before you do something, consult with those whom you want to help. Don't just simply assume what they may need. Ask them. Discuss things with them. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e506e18-13c5-4bfb-aea9-c626e96a619c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've written an article on this topic.</a> On the other hand, apparently, asking too much will get you branded ableist, all the way to your home instance with over users being on the brink of a fediblock. Here's a comment I've written on <a href="https://wandering.shop/users/AlinaLeonova/statuses/113605362051803660" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this poll thread</a> by @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a>. I've directed it to a blind user whom I may have asked once too much. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 15:59:44 +0100 @<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions? Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me. And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate. But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is. And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://piaille.fr/@shtrom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Olivier Mehani</a> @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> Here is his reply in which he claims I'm an ableist who actually doesn't want to describe images. This is far from the truth. <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter/113607604108734988" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 20:47:46 +0100 You really don't think I remember you do you? You ask this question every single time in an attempt to badger users like me into getting away with *not* providing alt text because you wanna be ableist but try to pass it off as perfectionist. You will *never* please everybody, so to even try and to even is patronizing and ableist all by itself. I consider you to be nothing more than a troll. Look dude, if you don't wanna provide alt text then don't fucking provide it, but don't insult my intelligence with this obvious C lion tactic of I'm a perfectionist. I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again. <a href="https://caneandable.social/tags/AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> Here is my reply. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/2b641086-2539-4dc3-b18e-6583b4a4f7d4?f=&zid=veganism.social%40veganism.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:37:27 +0100 @<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> <blockquote>I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again.</blockquote> If I didn't care for accessibility, if I didn't want to describe my images, why would I want to satisfy everyone, all the way to random strangers who stumble upon my posts in some federated timeline? I shouldn't even want to satisfy anyone! Why would I spend literal days, morning to evening, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">describing one image in all details</a>? Twice per image? Why would I refuse to even take pictures, let alone post them, if they'll be too difficult to describe in a way that I consider sufficient? Why would I pick up any advice on how to describe certain things, like people or colours, and consider any of my image descriptions that don't have this incorporated hopelessly outdated? Why would I transcribe text that's too small for sighted people to read, just because all text in an image has to be described? Why would I feel bad about text that I couldn't transcribe and then try to find a source for that piece of text? And yes, I do. Why would I be literally the only one in the entire Fediverse who tries to tell people that and why explanations don't go into the alt-text because people with certain disabilities can't access alt-text, and any information that's only available in alt-text is lost to them? And why would I warn sensitive people about eyes or food that's in the image on a microscopic sub-pixel level if I didn't care? And yes, I actually did that. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">In my post with my second-longest image description</a>. Just because I don't just simply shut up and describe my images exactly on point like you personally want them described, doesn't justify insulting me as an ableist. CC: @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a> In the meantime, he wrote and sent this post in which he called for a fediblock of either my channel or the entirety of hub.netzgemeinde.eu, the biggest Hubzilla instance. <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter/113607848031668067" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:49:48 +0100 Link at end. I'm unsure if <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> is on his own instance, but <a href="https://caneandable.social/tags/Fediblock" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Fediblock</a> for concerned trolling and ableist behavior by being patronizing to disabled people about alt text. I can't find others on his instance, but every, single time, the person posts the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and expects disabled people to tell this person because you can't describe every thing in an image you don't have to do alt text. Or maybe my temper is just short today, but here's the question. This isn't genuine curiocity because he asks the, same, question, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. No answer is to his satisfaction. Nobdoy waste your time with this obnoxious troll. If it turns out I am lashing out of anger and have misjudged, will delete the post but <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediblockMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediblockMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions? Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me. And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate. But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is. And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://piaille.fr/@shtrom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Olivier Mehani</a> @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Alt Text Hall of FameSomeone once posted a short study on the quality of alt text of images posted here, not just whether it's present. Does this ring any bells? Can't seem to find it anymore.<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#accessibility</a>

Stefan BohacekI find myself having to search through my old and bookmarked posts when the topic of alt text on social media comes up, so I'm just going to put some of the relevant polls I've posted over the past few months here on my blog.<a href="https://stefanbohacek.com/blog/polls-about-alt-text-on-social-media/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://stefanbohacek.com/blog/polls-about-alt-text-on-social-media/</a><a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/SocialMedia" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#SocialMedia</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://queer.cool/@wx1g" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Superdave!</a> Well, the quality and usefulness of image descriptions in general and alt-text in particular can not only vary greatly, depending on the circumstances, but it's also very subjective. One user could say that an alt-text of 200 characters is sufficient, or even that a longer alt-text is too long. Another user could say about the same image that they need a full, detailed description of all visual elements plus explanations of everything they aren't familiar with because the content of the image is apparently very interesting, but too obscure. I myself prefer to err on the side of "too much", sometimes taking several days to describe one measly image. Not everyone likes the outcome, but some applaud it. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://wandering.shop/@kagan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kagan MacTane</a> There's one surefire way to tell that an image description is AI-generated: It's whimsical, but blatantly inaccurate, often outright wrong, and it completely ignores the context because there's no way for the AI to know the context. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://lgbtqia.space/@alice" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@alice</a> Personally, I wish for Clients to explicitly nag people into adding <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> / <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a>!

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.green/@CiaraNi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ciara</a> And yet, there are people trying to talk me out of it. For example, I shouldn't transcribe text that's so tiny that it isn't even recognisable in the image as text because it's only a blob of a dozen pixels. They say that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">40,000</a> or <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">60,000</a> characters of description and explanations for one image are too much. The only thing I'm reconsidering myself currently is whether to keep these monster descriptions in the post or put them into external documents and link to them. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.green/@CiaraNi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ciara</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@boab" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Boab</a> I guess there are enough signs that my image descriptions are hand-written, especially for my original virtual world renderings. <ul><li>Alt-texts which lately keep reaching exactly 1,500 characters or only few characters short of that limit.</li><li>Alt-texts that also mention an even longer image description in the post. And there is an even longer image description in the post. Who asks an AI to describe an image in lots of details and then again in even more details?</li><li>No AI can produce image descriptions with five-digit character counts like the long one in the post.</li><li>Excessive detail information about an absolutely obscure niche topic in the long description.</li><li>Description of visual details that aren't visible at the image's resolution.</li><li>Transcripts of text that isn't legible or not even visible at the image's resolution.</li><li>Sometimes I run an extra thread with an image-describing log.</li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

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