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#programminglanguage

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What I don’t like:

  • some stuff breaks “everything is a list” model
  • Common Lisp is not minimal, includes overlapping and legacy stuff

does #scheme address this?

@rzeta0 I would say yes, Scheme sort of addresses those issues.

Scheme’s biggest advantage is that it is minimal enough that you can understand the whole language specification top-to-bottom, inside and out. But that is also it’s greatest drawback: is that it is too minimal to be practical. So for a long time, every single Scheme implementation has a it’s own large and unique set of libraries for solving practical programming problems that were incompatible with other Scheme implementations, making the Scheme ecosystem very fragmented. The Scheme Request for Implementation (SRFI) process is meant to address this fragmentation issue. Fragmentation is still (in my opinion) a pretty big problem, though things are much better than they were 20 years ago.

The R6RS standard, as I understand it, tried to make Scheme more practical, but it started to become too Common Lisp-like in complexity so it was mostly rejected by the Scheme community — with a few notable exceptions, like the Chez Scheme compiler.

The next standard, R7RS, split the language into two parts: “R7RS small,” ratified in 2014, which is more like the original minimal core of the Scheme language, but just a few new features, in particular the define-library macro, for modularizing parts of Scheme programs into immutable environment objects. Then they took a collection of “SRFIs” and declared them to be part of the “R7RS large” language standard. The full “large” language specification is not yet fully ratified, even 11 years after the completion of R7RS “small,” but I think the SRFIs they have ratified so far already make the latest Scheme standard a very practical language. The final R7RS standard may end up being larger than Common Lisp, but that is fine with me since it can be almost completely implemented in the R7RS “small” Scheme standard.

R7RS “small” Scheme, in my opinion, is a powerful but minimal language that exists to implement other languages, but is still useful in it’s own right as a progeny of Lisp. The “R7RS large” language then adds the useful features of larger languages like Python or Common Lisp as a layer on top of the “R7RS small” language.

The current chair of the R7RS working group is Daphne Preston Kendal, and is often on Mastodon as @dpk . She can tell you if I got anything in this post wrong.

srfi.schemers.orgScheme Requests for Implementation

Oh great, just what we needed—another programming language with a name that sounds like a citrus fruit 🍋. "Malleable and legible"—terms that definitely don't describe the #documentation that probably reads like IKEA assembly instructions 😂. But hey, at least you can "collaborate outside of code," whatever that means 🙄.
github.com/jamii/zest #programminglanguage #citrusfruit #humor #collaboration #HackerNews #ngated

GitHubGitHub - jamii/zestContribute to jamii/zest development by creating an account on GitHub.

Share of programming languages used by #GTK3 / #GTK4 applications (2025-03-16):

28% #Python
21% #Vala
20% #Rust
17% #C
06% #C++ #Cplusplus
06% #gjs #Javascript
04% Other: #Csharp #Go #Lua #Haskell #Swift #Typescript #Crystal #Swift #D #Perl

63% use GTK4 (90% of them use #libadwaita), while still 37% use GTK3

Method: Source [1] lists 543 awesome #gtk (3/4) #opensource applications and their #programminglanguage

[1] github.com/valpackett/awesome-

#GTK #FLOSS #Linux #Programming #Gnome

@GTK @gnome

A Code Centric Journey Into the #Gleam Language • Giacomo Cavalieri • GOTO 2024

inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=yHe_wzF
(or YT: youtube.com/watch?v=PfPIiHCId0)

If I had to describe Gleam in word, it would be this:

Lovely.

⭐

GOTO Conferences | InvidiousA Code Centric Journey Into the Gleam Language • Giacomo Cavalieri • GOTO 2024This presentation was recorded at GOTO Copenhagen 2024. #GOTOcon #GOTOcph https://gotocph.com Giacomo Cavalieri - Gleam Core Team Member @giacomo_cavalieri RESOURCES https://bsky.app/profile/giacomocavalieri.me https://twitter.com/giacomo_cava https://giacomocavalieri.me https://github.com/giacomocavalieri Links https://gleam.run https://tour.gleam.run https://exercism.org/tracks/gleam ABSTRACT In this talk we’ll embark on a journey to discover Gleam: a “friendly language for building type-safe systems that scale!” We’ll learn about the design philosophy underpinning it, what does it even mean for a programming language to be friendly, and what’s the ace up Gleam’s sleeve that enables you to write highly concurrent and fault tolerant systems. This talk is for everyone and by the end of it you’ll have all you need to keep your Gleam journey going and become a true Gleamlin! [...] TIMECODES 00:00 Intro 00:40 What is Gleam? 05:36 Gleam is type safe 18:19 Gleam can scale 26:23 Gleam is friendly 29:46 Demo 34:54 What now? 35:52 Gleam language tour 36:21 Gleam exercism track 36:43 Get in touch 37:24 Outro Download slides and read the full abstract here: https://gotocph.com/2024/sessions/3504 RECOMMENDED BOOKS Saša Jurić • Elixir in Action • https://amzn.to/2RZh5eN Dave Thomas • Programming Elixir ≥ 1.6: Functional • https://amzn.to/34Dw3O5 Svilen Gospodinov • Concurrent Data Processing in Elixir • https://amzn.to/3tOOw71 James Gray II & Bruce Tate • Designing Elixir Systems With OTP • https://amzn.to/3XmWHVx Chris McCord • Metaprogramming Elixir • https://amzn.to/3EtpT4G McCord, Tate & Valim • Programming Phoenix 1.4 • https://amzn.to/3zcUqj4 https://twitter.com/GOTOcon https://www.linkedin.com/company/goto- https://www.instagram.com/goto_con https://www.facebook.com/GOTOConferences #ElixirGleam #GleamLang #GleamProgramming #Elixir #TypeSafeSystems #FunctionalProgramming #Programming #Erlang #ErlangVM #BEAM #GiacomoCavalieri CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket at https://gotopia.tech Sign up for updates and specials at https://gotopia.tech/newsletter SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL - new videos posted almost daily. https://www.youtube.com/user/GotoConferences/?sub_confirmation=1

Why people design a new #ProgrammingLanguage?

There are tons of good reasons of course. Some does that for fun or for curiosity, some for political or educational reasons, some to address shortcomings faced with existing one, either in specific use case or in general.

To me, at least at the conscious level, it's completely a political issue.

I see how programming is a new political force (so much that I actively used it to fight #BigTech in Italy) and I see how people who cannot read (aka #debug) or write (aka #programing), are doomed to becomes second class citizens in a #cybernetic society.

I don't want this to happen to my daughters, so I want to teach them how to program and debug.

BUT mainstream programming languages are weird, full of accidental complexity and with over-complicated semantics.

As a nerd who can programs in most of them, I tend to get fun in the abstractions and details of, say, a #Haskell or an homoiconic macro in a #Lisp.

But while they are fun to a person grown (and selected to fit) within such a primitive computing environment, they are inheritely excluding people who cannot spend decades to grasp their subtle intricacies.

And how you can teach such languages to kids?

Sure they can learn and understand any programming language construct way better of an average adult, but at a first glance all they will only see is glibberish!

And while some will be fascinated by such esoteric language that can be used to create games, worlds and agents that serve their will (just like I was when I was a kid), most will find that complicated and thus boring.

On the other hand a language that is explicit and with simple semantics (such as say #Oberon) will seem verbose and boring to a professional programmer.

I love the simple clarity of a #snake implementation like this https://github.com/tmartiro/voc-snake/blob/main/Snake.Mod whose complexity is almost just the complexity of the task at hand.

And while I see little improvements I could add to such language to further simplify it's syntax and semantics, when I try to do so, I end with something that is less readable than the original, despite syntax and semantics being simpler (as in less rules and no exceptions or incoherence).

It was pointed out by @anzu@items.minimals.org: while I want to make the language easy to read and simple to understand, I subconsciously try to address the issues I faced in my ~25 years as a polyglot programmer.
And apparently I can't resist such impulse, like if I cannot escape my experience.

It's sad.

It makes me think of how the phonetic alphabet was invented by people who cannot read or write but were exposed to hierogliphs, and think that creating a democratic programming language is beyond my ability because of how my mind has been blent from the existing one.

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